I guess we have to agree to disagree. I hate saying that, but I feel like we just have different views on music. I think "real" music can be made on a computer. I think "real" music is what people call music, and that's that. I don't think it is about standing up for what you believe in. It is about accepting differences in people, which is something that metalheads are always complaining about. I think it is elitism at its worst and which is what kept blues and jazz from getting released when those genres were emerging.

I have no problem in accepting differences in people. People can be free to listen to whatever they want but I also don't have to like it, accept it or appreciate or support it. I grew up in a time when if wanted to play music, you had to work hard to do it. Not just go to your local computer store and buy a piece of software.


By the way, this debate was happening when I first started this forum and it ended up being deleted with 2 members being banned in the process. For some reason, it always stirs up opinions and emotions. I hope it works out a little better this time around. I am sure NTNR will have something to add to this too, surprise he hasn't added anything yet. Where are you?????

I can see that computers can play a positive role in modern music. I think the problem is it has got to the point where the human is not thinking a lot of the time. The computer is doing the thinking for them and therefore, modern music is becoming soulless.

Music is supposed to invoke an emotional reaction in the listener. I doubt some of these young kids even have real emotions other than "I WANT" and that's why souless crap is popular.

Of course Dr Doom was only joking but he raises a good point. If there were some standards in place, most music wouldn't make the grade but that would also include most, if not all metal. Also what sucks is up to the ears and minds of the individual and people have no right to judge others. Of course I think modern music sucks as does most modern movies, TV, and so on but you don't have to listen to it. By not buying any of the garbage, you are having your own form of protest against that which you see as crap. The best thing to do is promote the hell out of the music you like and hopefully others will catch on. It is a losing battle to a certain extent but if we give up, we have lost all hope.

I think modern music sucks because not enough people care about music anymore. If they did, there would be better music in the mainstream. I was just looking at a old top 40 chart from 71, Zeppelin, Floyd, Sabbath, Purple, Jethro Tull, ELP, Alice Cooper are all on there. Look at the top 40 chart now and there is isn't a true rock artist anywhere. It is all sugary sweet pop garbage.

Hmmm...it seems to me the wrong point is being argued. I don't think modern music sucks at all--there are some great bands out there. Pop music, on the other hand, does indeed suck and it has for the past three decades with the rare exception (which is becoming even more rare as time progresses). To be honest, except for the "grunge" era--Seattle sound/early alternative radio days, or whatever one would like to call it, I can't really distinguish a 90's pop tune from a 00's pop tune or one currently played on the radio unless it's auto-tuned.

I do like like some "electronic" or modern music (certainly not pop), but it really does have to be something special. While I do think that it requires more talent to actually play a "real" instrument to compose and write music and collaborate with other musicians, an electronic artist also has to possess some degree of talent to come up with hooks and aurally appealing tunes (even if they don't appeal to everyone).

I've found that people who listen exclusively to pop music and sit back waiting for the next saccharine tune to be rammed down their throat are usually not very open-minded and tend to be superficial. Yes, it's a sweeping generalization and I'm okay with that. There are exceptions, but that's just my experience.

Yes, we have gone off-topic a little but the point I and a couple of others were making is in the mainstream world, what people find as "good music" and "chart worthy" is totally different now to what it was 30 to 40 years ago. People were far more open-minded in the 70's from what I can remember. I can remember going to school friends parties and hearing everything from E.L.P to Rod Stewart. That wouldn't happened now. Attitudes and tastes have changed to the point where music is just something to have going in the background and is not something you sit down with and truly listen, therefore most people don't care what crap they listen to.

I think somebody else already said this but it starts with the education system. In the 50's through to the 80's or around there, music was a important subject in schools and in a lot of schools, you had to learn a instrument whether you like it or not so a lot of kids found a appreciation in the musicianship side of it. Now that hardly exists at all in schools. Some schools might have music as a optional thing but most don't so you don't get as many kids learning the finer points of how to play and how to write songs. It kind comes back to the fast-food mentality that Ed always brings up. It is true, people want everything fast and disposable and mainstream music has became that way too. No many young people can bothered practicing guitar for 5 to 10 years, they would rather just go to their computers to make sounds and beats.

A few reasons why I think modern music sucks (IMO):

- the "American Idolization Factor" - people want to be famous more than they want to actually make music.

- manufactured styles - the reason a lot of modern rock and pop and whatever else all sounds the same is because it's engineered to. It's the same reason (applied) you can go into any Applebee's across the country, order one of their specialty burgers, and they'll taste generally the same. Music has been engineered in "audio test kitchens" to make sure they turn out something they feel will be some sort of guaranteed money maker. If Nickelback is popular, they need more of it. If Lady GaGa is popular, they need more of it. Experimentation is for the underground and if by some coincidence of timing and luck something completely different comes along and catches on, these test kitchens will engineer 10 more just like them and distill the life and passion right out of it.

- production - everyone is using the same computers, the same digital interfaces, the same software plug-in's, the same digital amp sounds, the same pitch correctors, the same rhythm editors, etc...

Of course, I am speaking about my perspective on mainstream music. There have been copycat bands/artists since modern music began. However, the originals (The Beatles, Zeppelin, Queen, Sabbath, Floyd) are still on everyone's lips 40 years later. Nobody will be talking about Nickelback or Five Finger Death Punch in 40 years.

That said, Rock and Roll is barely 60 years old...it's still a baby in terms of musical movements and precedents are still being set.

It goes back to everybody wants their 15 minutes of fame and now with the internet, you can get that and more. There are so many no talent hacks that get massive views on YouTube because some gimmick they have, something funny in the video or whatever and they get thousands of hits everyday of the week. It has little to do with talent, it is just about being seen.

Most modern music sounds plastic to me, it has a fakeness to it. Some of it shouldn't even qualify as music to me. They remind me of television commercials.

I tend to call it "Ringtone Music"...

I think a lot of popular music is written with ringtones in mind. They make the melody or whatever so mindlessly simple so they can turn it into a ringtone later.

Simple isn't always bad...the problem I have with most pop music is that it's manufactured by corporations for high yield returns (in other words, dumbed down and obvious) as opposed to created and played by musicians for the sake of creativity.

It's not creative for Frito Lay to turn out thousands of bags of Doritos a day just like it's not creative for some producer and manager to concoct another Justin Beiber or Black Eyed Peas.