What Do You Consider Extreme Doom?

Subject: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:10 pm

Is it doom/drone noise like Gnaw Their Tongues, is it extreme funeral doom, or does down-tuned to the max stoner doom satisfy your extreme doom needs. Just wondering what makes music extreme for you?

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:18 pm

First time I heard Conan I thought it was extreme doom... so I guess the third option for me?

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:04 am

I tend to think Sunn O))) are pretty extreme, so... Option 1 ?

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:41 am

We could separate three kinds of Doom metal: the traditional one, the one that is in the middle and the extreme one. The Traditional one is the one that was influenced the most by the fathers of Doom and by others heavy rock bands. We could count traditional and epic doom metal in this group. The middle group has some influences from traditional doom bands and proto doom as well as influences from extreme territory and has more influences from another genres of metal ( or punk) than traditional doom metal bands. That group consists of Stoner Metal/rock/Stoner doom metal, and Sludge.
The last group is extreme Doom metal. extreme doom metal could be influenced by both traditional doom and that unnamed middle group of bands, but it is generally more influenced by others genres of metal and other genres ( Death metal, Black metal, ambient music, drone music), but those bands still play doom metal. The subgenres included in extreme territory are: Funeral, Drone, Death Doom, Black Doom...

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:57 am

I came up with this topic because I often hear "drone" acts being described as extreme but they don't seem extreme to me at all. I guess creating bass hums and guitar noises is not my idea of doing something radical. I am not putting down drone by the way, just saying. What sounds extreme depends on the person listening to it. Black Sabbath is extreme to some people, to others it is just traditional heavy metal for example.

If you wanted to make something extreme in the doom genre, what approach would you adopt is what I am asking. Maybe my mind is fried these days from hearing too much doom but nothing seems extreme to me anymore. Does anybody else feel like this?

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Leviathan Location: Michigan Posts: 555 KARMA: 38542

Ed wrote:

I came up with this topic because I often hear "drone" acts being described as extreme but they don't seem extreme to me at all. I guess creating bass hums and guitar noises is not my idea of doing something radical. I am not putting down drone by the way, just saying. What sounds extreme depends on the person listening to it. Black Sabbath is extreme to some people, to others it is just traditional heavy metal for example.

If you wanted to make something extreme in the doom genre, what approach would you adopt is what I am asking. Maybe my mind is fried these days from hearing too much doom but nothing seems extreme to me anymore. Does anybody else feel like this?

I agree with you completely. Nothing sounds extreme anymore regardless of genre, it is either enjoyable (good) to listen to or not (shitty). I mean don't get me wrong there are bands out there that try and act extreme or portray themselves as extreme but all the extreme variables (drugs, sex, violence, theatrics, occult, playing fast, playing slow, playing technically, playing simple shit, etc., etc.) is so played out that there really aren't any truly extreme bands anymore. The bands that do try and push the envelope end up getting shut down or in trouble anyway. For instance at Gorgoroth's Black Mass show in Krakow they had nude models hung from crosses, and the heads of animals stuck on stakes and they ended up getting in trouble with the law for that. Albeit they aren't a doom metal band they still try and portray themselves as "extreme".

Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:12 pm

perdurabo wrote:

Ed wrote:

I came up with this topic because I often hear "drone" acts being described as extreme but they don't seem extreme to me at all. I guess creating bass hums and guitar noises is not my idea of doing something radical. I am not putting down drone by the way, just saying. What sounds extreme depends on the person listening to it. Black Sabbath is extreme to some people, to others it is just traditional heavy metal for example.

If you wanted to make something extreme in the doom genre, what approach would you adopt is what I am asking. Maybe my mind is fried these days from hearing too much doom but nothing seems extreme to me anymore. Does anybody else feel like this?

I agree with you completely. Nothing sounds extreme anymore regardless of genre, it is either enjoyable (good) to listen to or not (shitty). I mean don't get me wrong there are bands out there that try and act extreme or portray themselves as extreme but all the extreme variables (drugs, sex, violence, theatrics, occult, playing fast, playing slow, playing technically, playing simple shit, etc., etc.) is so played out that there really aren't any truly extreme bands anymore. The bands that do try and push the envelope end up getting shut down or in trouble anyway. For instance at Gorgoroth's Black Mass show in Krakow they had nude models hung from crosses, and the heads of animals stuck on stakes and they ended up getting in trouble with the law for that. Albeit they aren't a doom metal band they still try and portray themselves as "extreme".

Yes, there is nothing left to do to be extreme anymore, unless you go onstage and kill yourself or somebody else but that will only be good for one show. Every time a band does cross the line and does something truly extreme, they get arrested. Musically there are even less options. I mean what is "heavy" these days. When I was a kid Sabbath was a really heavy, heavy metal band, now I hear people call them rock and roll.

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:18 pm

maybe the real extreme thing would be a trully loud music, a music that would go over the limit

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:59 pm

Doomed poet wrote:

maybe the real extreme thing would be a trully loud music, a music that would go over the limit

Well the excessive volume approach has been done to death too. Now people realize that being excessively loud doesn't make you sound any better. Nothing can be done with tempos anymore, bands have pushed themselves in terms of speed, in both directions, both fast and super slow. I honestly can't think of anything new that can be done.

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:47 pm

Good Thread only trouble is I have no answer for it. I try to think of an extreme Doom band and when I do I realize the only thing I thought made them extreme was only because the music shared another genre. Because it's not the speed of the music,Volume,Vocals,or lyrics. What is it that makes it Extreme ? A combination of these ? or none of the above I don't know ?! Good Question !!!! Idea

Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:48 pm

I have never worried about the new ideas in music/art in future. It will change, when the new culture/philosophy will come/ important historical event... and then the new direction of philosophy and art will come and that will change the music and probably also Doom metal... But it might not occur in our lifetime... Then the new generation will call this new variation extreme doom...

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And we are it'd door to our dimension
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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:50 pm

zardoz wrote:

Good Thread only trouble is I have no answer for it. I try to think of an extreme Doom band and when I do I realize the only thing I thought made them extreme was only because the music shared another genre. Because it's not the speed of the music,Volume,Vocals,or lyrics. What is it that makes it Extreme ? A combination of these ? or none of the above I don't know ?! Good Question !!!! Idea

I tried to answer on you question with my first post. I think the combinations with other music genres makes a Doom metal extreme: for example: traditional Doom ( Saint Vitus)+ HC ( Black Flag)= Sludge Metal ( Grief) Very Happy

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The music lives outside reality's walls
And we are it'd door to our dimension
It comes through our emotions
It runs through our art
And come out from our veins
From our pains ( Novembre)

http://www.last.fm/user/blackfolkdoom

http://whitemagic-darkmagic.blogspot.com/

Leviathan Location: Michigan Posts: 555 KARMA: 38542

Jack Sabbath wrote:

perdurabo wrote:

Ed wrote:

I came up with this topic because I often hear "drone" acts being described as extreme but they don't seem extreme to me at all. I guess creating bass hums and guitar noises is not my idea of doing something radical. I am not putting down drone by the way, just saying. What sounds extreme depends on the person listening to it. Black Sabbath is extreme to some people, to others it is just traditional heavy metal for example.

If you wanted to make something extreme in the doom genre, what approach would you adopt is what I am asking. Maybe my mind is fried these days from hearing too much doom but nothing seems extreme to me anymore. Does anybody else feel like this?

I agree with you completely. Nothing sounds extreme anymore regardless of genre, it is either enjoyable (good) to listen to or not (shitty). I mean don't get me wrong there are bands out there that try and act extreme or portray themselves as extreme but all the extreme variables (drugs, sex, violence, theatrics, occult, playing fast, playing slow, playing technically, playing simple shit, etc., etc.) is so played out that there really aren't any truly extreme bands anymore. The bands that do try and push the envelope end up getting shut down or in trouble anyway. For instance at Gorgoroth's Black Mass show in Krakow they had nude models hung from crosses, and the heads of animals stuck on stakes and they ended up getting in trouble with the law for that. Albeit they aren't a doom metal band they still try and portray themselves as "extreme".

Yes, there is nothing left to do to be extreme anymore, unless you go onstage and kill yourself or somebody else but that will only be good for one show. Every time a band does cross the line and does something truly extreme, they get arrested. Musically there are even less options. I mean what is "heavy" these days. When I was a kid Sabbath was a really heavy, heavy metal band, now I hear people call them rock and roll.

G.G. Allin basically killed himself on stage, i mean that guy would slice him self up and eat feces...but i find that more disgusting than extreme

Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:21 pm

perdurabo wrote:

Jack Sabbath wrote:

perdurabo wrote:

Ed wrote:

I came up with this topic because I often hear "drone" acts being described as extreme but they don't seem extreme to me at all. I guess creating bass hums and guitar noises is not my idea of doing something radical. I am not putting down drone by the way, just saying. What sounds extreme depends on the person listening to it. Black Sabbath is extreme to some people, to others it is just traditional heavy metal for example.

If you wanted to make something extreme in the doom genre, what approach would you adopt is what I am asking. Maybe my mind is fried these days from hearing too much doom but nothing seems extreme to me anymore. Does anybody else feel like this?

I agree with you completely. Nothing sounds extreme anymore regardless of genre, it is either enjoyable (good) to listen to or not (shitty). I mean don't get me wrong there are bands out there that try and act extreme or portray themselves as extreme but all the extreme variables (drugs, sex, violence, theatrics, occult, playing fast, playing slow, playing technically, playing simple shit, etc., etc.) is so played out that there really aren't any truly extreme bands anymore. The bands that do try and push the envelope end up getting shut down or in trouble anyway. For instance at Gorgoroth's Black Mass show in Krakow they had nude models hung from crosses, and the heads of animals stuck on stakes and they ended up getting in trouble with the law for that. Albeit they aren't a doom metal band they still try and portray themselves as "extreme".

Yes, there is nothing left to do to be extreme anymore, unless you go onstage and kill yourself or somebody else but that will only be good for one show. Every time a band does cross the line and does something truly extreme, they get arrested. Musically there are even less options. I mean what is "heavy" these days. When I was a kid Sabbath was a really heavy, heavy metal band, now I hear people call them rock and roll.

G.G. Allin basically killed himself on stage, i mean that guy would slice him self up and eat feces...but i find that more disgusting than extreme

Yeah there is a big difference between being extreme and just being a sick individual. I think GG was a attention seeker more than anything else and extremity doesn't really come into it. He was just a mental case most of the time. Being extreme via your stage antics is also very different from being extreme musically. Anyone can be crazy onstage but to come up with something truly out of this world musically requires some talent and imagination.

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:08 pm

Ed wrote:

perdurabo wrote:

Jack Sabbath wrote:

perdurabo wrote:

Ed wrote:

I came up with this topic because I often hear "drone" acts being described as extreme but they don't seem extreme to me at all. I guess creating bass hums and guitar noises is not my idea of doing something radical. I am not putting down drone by the way, just saying. What sounds extreme depends on the person listening to it. Black Sabbath is extreme to some people, to others it is just traditional heavy metal for example.

If you wanted to make something extreme in the doom genre, what approach would you adopt is what I am asking. Maybe my mind is fried these days from hearing too much doom but nothing seems extreme to me anymore. Does anybody else feel like this?

I agree with you completely. Nothing sounds extreme anymore regardless of genre, it is either enjoyable (good) to listen to or not (shitty). I mean don't get me wrong there are bands out there that try and act extreme or portray themselves as extreme but all the extreme variables (drugs, sex, violence, theatrics, occult, playing fast, playing slow, playing technically, playing simple shit, etc., etc.) is so played out that there really aren't any truly extreme bands anymore. The bands that do try and push the envelope end up getting shut down or in trouble anyway. For instance at Gorgoroth's Black Mass show in Krakow they had nude models hung from crosses, and the heads of animals stuck on stakes and they ended up getting in trouble with the law for that. Albeit they aren't a doom metal band they still try and portray themselves as "extreme".

Yes, there is nothing left to do to be extreme anymore, unless you go onstage and kill yourself or somebody else but that will only be good for one show. Every time a band does cross the line and does something truly extreme, they get arrested. Musically there are even less options. I mean what is "heavy" these days. When I was a kid Sabbath was a really heavy, heavy metal band, now I hear people call them rock and roll.

G.G. Allin basically killed himself on stage, i mean that guy would slice him self up and eat feces...but i find that more disgusting than extreme

Yeah there is a big difference between being extreme and just being a sick individual. I think GG was a attention seeker more than anything else and extremity doesn't really come into it. He was just a mental case most of the time. Being extreme via your stage antics is also very different from being extreme musically. Anyone can be crazy onstage but to come up with something truly out of this world musically requires some talent and imagination.

True and also so many bands still rely on image to gather interest, musically there is not much to talk about. It has all been done and being extreme doesn't cut it anymore. I think you have to go back to the traditions of good songwriting and forget about trying to impress with how down-tuned you are or whatever. That stuff just doesn't excite anymore.

Astaroth Age: 21 Location: Belgium Posts: 319 KARMA: 15958

Hmm. I think personally I would consider black/doom metal amalgams to fall under this moniker, as well as the heavier death/doom stuff (and I really do mean the really heavy bands), some absurdly fierce sludge like Swamp Witch, you catch my drift.
For me, funeral doom would fall under extreme doom as well, drone is a lot more divided in my opinion but I'd categorize it as extreme doom as well.

Genre labels don't really matter of course, but that's just my personal view of the more "extreme" doom variants.
For me it's mostly focused on the ridiculous heaviness of the music and/or the vocals, but I think it might have a lot to do with experimentation and estranging traits as well (eg. black/doom metal is extreme for the raw vocals and atmosphere, funeral and drone for their dissonance and sheer slowness, etc.). Another reasoning is the further music is removed from being music at all, the more "extreme" it becomes. I think good extreme music needs to carefully thread the borders to find the sweet spot that really hits you.

Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:14 pm

Funeral doom is a funny "extreme" genre to me because a lot of the CD's I receive that are tagged with being funeral doom often have a lot of mellow moments, piano interludes, acoustic guitars and the like and are mostly not extreme at all. Same thing happens with a lot of death doom, when its heavy it is real heavy but it is blended with mellow, melodic moments that are hardly extreme. Drone is the same, they have their extreme passages but there is often moments of sweet melody so I wonder if there is a extreme genre at all. I also don't find black metal extreme, just playing really fast or whatever doesn't make me think "extreme" but maybe that is just me.

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:07 pm

Ed wrote:

Funeral doom is a funny "extreme" genre to me because a lot of the CD's I receive that are tagged with being funeral doom often have a lot of mellow moments, piano interludes, acoustic guitars and the like and are mostly not extreme at all. Same thing happens with a lot of death doom, when its heavy it is real heavy but it is blended with mellow, melodic moments that are hardly extreme. Drone is the same, they have their extreme passages but there is often moments of sweet melody so I wonder if there is a extreme genre at all. I also don't find black metal extreme, just playing really fast or whatever doesn't make me think "extreme" but maybe that is just me.

Perhaps that's what makes them "extreme". Their ability to go from ultra heavy to ultra melodic with simple piano/acoustic/whatever thrown in is the ultimate extreme. Going from ugly and depressing to beautiful and serene is a skill that not too many have. Just a thought.

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:49 am

I would say Esoteric is a prime example of an extreme doom band. Doom-metal.com said my band Stoic Dissention is a extreme doom band and we don't sound like Esoteric so I am not to sure beyond them.

Sloth Age: 27 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 12 KARMA: 1463

I always go for heaviness from the guitars and depressive value, that is what makes extreme doom to me but who is the most extreme is impossible to answer.

Sloth Age: 17 Location: New Orleans Posts: 9 KARMA: 659

Lucinda Witch wrote:

I always go for heaviness from the guitars and depressive value, that is what makes extreme doom to me but who is the most extreme is impossible to answer.

I think that is really the "extreme" combination really. I don't really find heavy guitars extreme anymore, there has to be something more to it.

Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:52 pm

Satanachia wrote:

Lucinda Witch wrote:

I always go for heaviness from the guitars and depressive value, that is what makes extreme doom to me but who is the most extreme is impossible to answer.

I think that is really the "extreme" combination really. I don't really find heavy guitars extreme anymore, there has to be something more to it.

I have got to that point too. Nothing seems overly heavy anymore so the extreme side has to come from the atmosphere of it. Musically, the heavy can't get much heavier.

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Subject: Re: What Do You Consider Extreme Doom? Tue May 01, 2012 9:51 am

I'm thinking it might be bands that are bands with harsh vocals that don't fall under a category completely. Also I think the band might need an element of chaotic atmosphere.

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